CHUCK TODD:
This Sunday: backlash. Donald Trump faces intense criticism after once again embracing white supremacists and antisemites.
SEN. MITCH McCONNELL:
There is no room in the Republican Party for antisemitism or white supremacy.
CHUCK TODD:
But is Trump fueling a rise in antisemitism by his pattern of refusing to speak out against it? Benjamin Netanyahu, the incoming prime minister of Israel and a fierce defender of Trump during his presidency, is here with his reaction. Plus, the next generation.
REP. NANCY PELOSI:
House Democrats are passing the torch.
CHUCK TODD:
For the first time in nearly 20 years House Democrats have a new set of leaders.
REP. KATHERINE CLARK:
American people want solutions.
CHUCK TODD:
I’ll speak with Democratic Congresswoman Katherine Clark of Massachusetts, who will be the next Democratic Whip in the new Congress. And, one more time.
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
This is the fifth time my name has been on the ballot in less than two years for the same doggone job.
CHUCK TODD:
Georgia voters go to the polls once again to decide who will win the last seat in the US Senate.
HERSCHEL WALKER:
A 50/50 Senate is better than a 51/49 Senate.
CHUCK TODD:
Joining me for insight and analysis are: Yamiche Alcindor, moderator of Washington Week on PBS; former White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki, Washington Post Senior National Political Correspondent Ashley Parker; and Marc Short, former chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.
CHUCK TODD:
Good Sunday morning. Donald Trump launched his third bid for the White House just 19 days ago, believe it or not, and already his campaign and the Republican Party are being tested as he refuses to disavow the antisemitic and racist part of the party that he has aligned himself with for years now. Trump has been endorsed by just a single Republican senator for this third bid, Alabama’s Tommy Tuberville. On the House side, his supporters include people like Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Paul Gosar. His former Vice President, Mike Pence, former Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, and former UN Ambassador, Nikki Haley, not only they are not endorsing Trump, they’re all making moves to run against him in the primaries, and though he announced his 2024 campaign so early as a way to complicate several federal criminal investigations into him, this week, a federal appeals court fast tracked the Mar-a-Lago investigation, ending an outside review of classified documents the FBI seized from his home and freeing the Justice Department and the new special counsel to use them in its criminal investigation. So now Trump is testing the limits of his ability to be a relevant political figure and he’s testing the limits of the Republican Party as he yet again embraces this extremism and antisemitism. After the rapper Ye, formerly known as Kanye West, lost lucrative partnerships with Adidas and others because of an antisemitic tirade, Donald Trump still welcomed him to Mar-a-Lago for a pre-Thanksgiving dinner. And Kanye brought along Nick Fuentes, a prominent white supremacist, Holocaust denier and antisemite. Trump has claimed not to know who Fuentes was, but he has not yet disavowed either Fuentes or Ye. Instead Trump recorded a video expressing solidarity with the mob that attacked the Capitol on January 6, he did that earlier this week, and then on Saturday, seemingly out of nowhere, called for the suspension of the Constitution as yet another attempt to overturn the 2020 election. Trump has been politically underestimated before with these antics, and in the end, the party has stood by him when he has been their nominee. But the backlash this time is growing.
[START TAPE]
SEN. MITCH McCONNELL:
Anyone meeting with people advocating that point of view, in my judgment, are highly unlikely to ever be elected President of the United States.
SEN. MITT ROMNEY:
It has been clear that there’s no bottom to the degree to which President Trump will degrade himself and the nation.
REP. KEVIN McCARTHY:
I don’t think anybody should associate or be a part of anything with Nick Fuentes.
FMR. VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
President Trump was wrong to give a white nationalist, an antisemite and a Holocaust denier a seat at the table. I think he should apologize for it.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Trump’s controversial dinner comes at a time of rising antisemitism here in the United States and around the world. This week the rapper formerly known as Kanye West said he likes Hitler and that he loves Nazis. According to the Anti-Defamation League, antisemitic incidents have hit an all-time high in 2021. We had more than 2,700 incidents of assault, harassment and vandalism reported, and that was nearly triple the number in 2015 before Donald Trump’s presidency began. And around the world, according to a report from the researchers at Tel Aviv University, antisemitic incidents have increased from 2020 to 2021 by 29% in Germany, 34% in Britain, 54% in Canada, and a whopping 74% in France. Joining me now is the incoming and longest-serving prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu. He’s returning to the post for the third time. He’s the author of the new book, “Bibi: My Story” and it is not a small read. It is a, very much a long read, but one worth reading. Mr. Netanyahu, welcome back to Meet The Press.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
Thank you. Good to be with you, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
And I wanted to start off to make sure you knew we were going to talk about your book, and I do want to talk about it, but I want to start with this issue of antisemitism. And it is rising around the globe and here in the United States. What do you attribute this to?
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
Well, it’s the oldest disease. It’s been around as a systemic ideology for 2,500 years, 500 years before the rise of Christianity actually. So it’s accompanied our history with horrific results over the centuries. And it’s not going to go away. What has changed is the birth of Israel that allows the Jewish people, as a collective body, to defend itself, to defend itself against the periodic flashpoints of violent antisemitism. But I think free societies have to take a consistent position to condemn antisemitism, to stand up against it, and to do so consistently. I say that because this Jew hatred is something akin to saying, you know, you like some Jews and you dislike others but you say, “Well, the Jewish people shouldn’t be around.” “I like some Blacks, I dislike others, but I think Black people shouldn’t be around, or Chinese people or whatever.” That’s clearly unacceptable. But it’s not merely morally unacceptable, it’s just dangerous to categorically deny the rights and existence of an entire human group. I think that is a danger, not merely for Jews, but for all free societies. And I think there should be a consistent and unabashed condemnation of that and opposition to it –
CHUCK TODD:
Have you said this directly –
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
– from Jews and everyone else.
CHUCK TODD:
Look, you’ve got a unique relationship with former President Trump. He has consistently flirted with some really fringe characters that spout this antisemitic behavior, that preach white supremacy and white nationalism, things like that. And he doesn’t denounce it. He has yet to denounce Kanye West at all. He’s yet to denounce being with a white supremacist a few days ago. Why does he have this difficulty, do you think?
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
I don’t know. First, let me say that President Trump did great things for Israel. He recognized Jerusalem as our capital, long overdue since King David proclaimed it as such 3,000 years ago. He moved the American embassy there. He recognized our sovereignty in the Golan Heights. He got out of what I believe is the disastrous Iran deal that would’ve paved Iran’s path with gold, hundreds of billions of dollars of sanctions relief towards a nuclear arsenal. So he’s done all these great things, and I appreciate it. And I remain appreciative. On this matter, on Kanye West and that other unacceptable guest, I think it’s not merely unacceptable, it’s just wrong. And I hope he sees his way to staying out of it and condemning it.
CHUCK TODD:
You do seem though to– you want to praise him for what he did for you. It’s an ends justifies the means argument. And at what point does his behavior end up impact — I mean, if his behavior is creating death threats to Jews, inspiring people, like what happened at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh, to shoot and kill Jews, doesn’t that wipe away anything good he did for Israel?
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
If it’s systemic and continues, and I doubt that it will because I think he probably understands that it crosses a line, but if you ask me what is driving the rise of antisemitism in France or in Britain and elsewhere, where it’s clearly not this or that personality, then I would say that probably what is driving it is one of the unfortunate effects of the internet age. There are many, many blessings of the internet age, but it comes also with a curse. And the curse is polarization. In the case of antisemitism it’s the melding, the fusion of the antisemitism from the extreme, radical left with the extreme, radical right. It fuses into Jew hatred, you know. The Communists blamed the Jews for being capitalists. The capitalists blamed the Jews for being Communists. You have a problem, blame the Jews. It’s the oldest, it’s the oldest hatred, as I say, one of the oldest hatreds of humanity. It was wrong then, it’s wrong now. But it’s got an extra life probably in the United States and in other countries by the age of the internet. And I think that’s the deeper phenomena that is happening here.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand. Are you at all concerned though that if you, if your government gets what you want you overlook, whether it’s Vladimir Putin, who’s also an antisemite, or Donald Trump? I mean, what is the line for you?
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
I don’t overlook antisemitism. I have a clear position against it, which I voice and I expect others to voice as well, as I’ve just said on this program. But I think if you ask about the – you’re asking a deeper problem which I, which I deal with in my book – I’ll plug it relentlessly during this program if you don’t – but I mean it because it’s real. The issue of balancing interests with values, that’s really what you’re asking. Where do you draw the line? Well, you make a series – in real life, you make – in real political life, in real political leadership, leaders of democratic countries constantly make that balance. The President of the United States, who’s an old friend of mine, Joe Biden, for 40 years, he meets sometimes with leaders of democracies and often with leaders of dictatorships which he finds unsavory because he’s balancing America’s interests. Everybody does that. But for me, the dividing line is very clear. When it comes to questions of our existence, safeguarding our existence, then existence comes first. I don’t think that’s the case here, and I don’t maintain that it is here. But you can draw the line morally without getting into that bind. But I’ll mention the fact that Churchill, whom I admire greatly, made a pact with Stalin. You know who Stalin was. You know how many millions he murdered. But he said, “Well, to deal with the larger danger of Hitlerism,” he made a pact with Stalin. That’s where I would draw the line. I hope we never get to it. We haven’t so far, and I don’t intend to.
CHUCK TODD:
So it sounds like – it sounds like you’re explaining a question I had for you, and you kind of explained it there. You’ve been more critical of some Congressional Democrats who are critical of the Israeli government than you are of a Donald Trump who’s been elevating people who praise Hitler. Does that go to this sort of transactional nature if it’s, you know, “But they’re helping Israel. And if they’re helping Israel, that’s what got to come first?”
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
Sorry, Chuck, I just nullified that argument on this very program and on previous programs when I came out very strongly against that meeting with that, with those antisemitic rantings, which in the case of at least one of the participants seemed to be something that is, how shall I say this, related to personalities more than, probably more than views. But they’re bad enough either way. You don’t exculpate them. Whoever says it for whatever reason is wrong. You don’t praise Hitler. You don’t praise– how can you praise Hitler? Hitler was the greatest mass killer of all time. So anybody who praises him is wrong. Anybody who meets with him and gives legitimacy is wrong. And I’ve said it as much, and I’ll continue to say it.
CHUCK TODD:
Would you like to see Donald Trump–
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
I don’t give passes–
CHUCK TODD:
–as president again?
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
–to anyone on this one.
CHUCK TODD:
Would you like to see Donald Trump as president again?
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
Oh, God. I’ve had, I’ve had enough of my politics. I’ve just won, gone through four of our elections. You want me to get into your elections? Keep me out of it.
CHUCK TODD:
Would you like to see him as American president though? Is that good for Israel in your mind?
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
Well, let me say that I’ll deal with anyone who’s elected president, those that I worked with in the past and anyone new who comes to the plate because the bond between Israel and America, and this was not a shibboleth, this was not just a saying. It really is a bond of peoples. And it’s a civilizational bond, and it’s strong. I’ll deal with anyone, and I certainly will not step on that land mine that you just put before me, Chuck. Come on, I’ve been in this business long enough and so have you. Keep trying.
CHUCK TODD:
Fair enough, and I appreciate you asking me to keep trying. Let me talk about your relationship with Vladimir Putin. You write about it in your book, “Bibi: My Story.” See, you’re not the only one. “From the first moment I took the measure of the man, Putin was smart and shrewd and totally committed to restoring Russia’s standing as a great power.” And then you write, “Yet it was precisely because of my assessment that I was dealing with someone who couldn’t be toyed with that I decided to be straightforward with him.” So on the issue of Ukraine, how do you get Vladimir Putin to withdraw his forces from Ukraine and end this peacefully? How do you think this ends? You know this man better than most world leaders.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
Well, it’s a tough one. First of all, on the question of Ukraine itself, one of the first things, not the first thing but one of the first things, I intend to do if, God willing, in a few days I’ll assume the post of prime minister again is to have a detailed discussion with our experts who’ve been following this and to be updated on it. But here’s the thing. Look, Ukraine is a tragedy of monumental proportions, but it could actually be worse because if you asked me a year ago when this war began, “What are the chances that it will degrade to tactical nuclear weapons,” which is sort of a longer way of saying, “entering nuclear weapons,” I would have told you zero. Today, I would still say that the odds are very low but they’re not zero. And that could be the greatest tragedy of all because in three quarters of a century, we have not crossed that threshold. We must not cross that threshold. And to the extent that there’s anything that I personally can do to help prevent that, or for that matter, to help end this horror, then I will do so. I’m not sure that I’m in a position to do it. I can tell you that I was approached about a year ago to enter this, and I said, “No, there’s one prime minister at a time.” It’s like the American presidency. There’s one president at a time. And our prime minister tried his hand in it unsuccessfully, and I didn’t want to step on anyone’s toes or hands. But I’ll certainly look into it because I think if anybody in the world can help end this, for the sake of humanity but also for the sake of world peace and security, they should do so. I don’t know if I’ll be in a position to do so.
CHUCK TODD:
Is it fair to say that Israel’s going to continue to remain neutral in this war?
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
Well, first of all, we’ve been helping Ukraine by taking in an inordinate amount of citizens, by the way, Jewish and non-Jewish relative to our tiny size. Israel, as you know, is one-tenth of one percent of the world’s population. It’s a tiny country. And yet we’ve taken in a great many. You ask about military assistance, that’s one of the issues I’m going to take up, and I’m not frivolous and fast, fast and furious as you like to say, on this. I think it requires careful deliberation, and frankly I’ll tell you one of the reasons why it requires careful deliberation. Because I’ve put it as a life’s mission to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons that can threaten us and threaten you but also to prevent it from placing an army of 80,000 militia commanded by Iranian generals on our border on the opposite side of the Syrian border. That’s what they’ve tried to do. We’ve bombed them consistently under my guidance. Now, we’re flying in Syria right next to, spitting distance to Russian fighters too, Russian aircraft. So I’ve avoided that war, a Russia/Israeli war, and that remains an interest, to preserve our freedom of action against Iran over the skies of Syria. It’s a complicated issue. I don’t hide it. But again, if there’s anything that I can do to help end this conflict, I assure you I will do it.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to ask you a few questions that are of concern to many American Jews about the formation of your government. Two people in particular have gotten people upset: Ben-Gvir, who was on a terrorist list at one time, is on a security ministry that you’re going to be giving him and then Avi Maoz on an education ministry that he’s going to have. There’s concerns about them for different reasons but both because they’re very far right, and they seem to be small, anti-democratic leaning in their nature. How much leeway are they going to get to pursue their own fringe ideology versus what you would like to see done?
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
Well, I’m not sure I’d characterize them the way you do, but I will say this. On Ben-Gvir, the Supreme Court looked into the matter of his eligibility, they decided categorically that he could. Remember that we just had a government with a party that’s beholden to the Muslim Brotherhood who don’t believe in any democratic values, LGBT rights, women’s rights and so on. I mean, and they were part of it. The outgoing government, I didn’t hear a word from all the chorus of critics that have come out against this because most of it is led by the outgoing government that can’t accept its defeat. Secondly, on the LGBT questions, I just won’t accept any of that. I mean, it’s not something I’m saying now. I have a record, and I have a record in general of having two hands on the wheel. And I ultimately decide policy, not ultimately. In the first instance, in the last instance. And, you know, I’ve had these doomsayers saying the end of democracy — well, they said before that, you know, for 30 years they characterized me as a warmonger and, “There’ll never be peace with Netanyahu.” Okay. Number one, there were fewer wars than at any other time, fewer casualties, the safest decades in our history because I’m a bereaved brother. I lost my brother. I saw my parents. And human life is important for me, period, and the life of our soldiers and by the way, everybody in Israel, left and right, agrees with that. Probably one of the reasons I was reelected. I don’t go into unnecessary military adventures. Secondly, I brought four historic peace treaties in ways that defied everybody else’s prognostications. I’m going to safeguard Israeli democracy. I’m going to bring peace categorically. I think I can get another breakthrough for peace, and I’m going to stop Iran. That’s what I’m coming back for, and that’s what I’m committed to.
CHUCK TODD:
Are you going to change the law of return or is one Jewish grandparent–
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
No–
CHUCK TODD:
–going to be enough to become an Israeli citizen?
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
It’s going to be a big debate, but I have pretty firm views. I doubt we’ll have any changes. And that’s something that’s going to require real careful deliberation and you don’t just come off and do these things. If you look at my history and my record, I’ve looked for creative solutions to these kinds of impasses, including the question of conversion. A lot of these things over time I’ve resolved, but I’ve resolved them by taking time and looking out of the box for creative solutions that won’t disrupt our people but will enable them to stay together. And, you know, the Jewish people can be very argumentative. It takes a big effort to cobble together coalitions and then to keep the country together.
CHUCK TODD:
I invite you to my congregation any time, and I think you would find that it would be quite argumentative. Benjamin Netanyahu, the book is “My Story.” Appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective and good luck with your next term.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU:
Thank you. Thank you, Chuck. Appreciate it.
CHUCK TODD:
When we come back, Donald Trump is now calling for the overturning of the Constitution as his 2024 campaign becomes even more desperate. Panel is next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back, panel is here: NBC News Washington correspondent Yamiche Alcindor; Ashley Parker, the senior national political correspondent for The Washington Post; Marc Short, former chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence; and former White House press secretary, Jen Psaki, an NBC News contributor. I should point out, Marc, there is no active presidential campaign for Mike Pence, right?
MARC SHORT:
Correct.
CHUCK TODD:
That’s right. But you are advising him, and you could be involved down the line.
MARC SHORT:
Oh, there’s no way that I know where that’s going to go, Chuck. But yes, I mean, I’ve worked with –
CHUCK TODD:
Anyway –
MARC SHORT:
– the vice president for 15 years and honored to do so.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, I just wanted to get that out there so viewers know on that front. But I’ll let you answer the first question here. Donald Trump, what he’s done with Kanye West, this Nick Fuentes, what he’s done with the Constitution, you know, is – is this time different?
MARC SHORT:
You know, Chuck, I don’t think it’s a good platform for a presidential campaign to say that we should just set the Constitution aside. And I feel like we’ve seen this, I think, digression continue ever since January 6. And you know, candidly, as far as putting the Constitution aside, I candidly think that’s what he asked the vice president to do two years ago, when rioters were attacking the Capitol and he asked the vice president to overturn the election results. And so I think, unfortunately, this has been a consistent trend. Now, I do think that there is concern for many conservatives about his belief about what happened in the Twitter revelation, and believing the media has had a double standard here. I mean, I know when Mike Pence was vice president of the United States his son was getting a paycheck from the government to serve in the United States Marine Corps. When Joe Biden was vice president, Hunter Biden was getting tens and tens of thousands of dollars from the communist Chinese and from Ukraine, which was Joe Biden’s portfolio. I think there has been a double standard. But the president’s remarks, the company he’s keeping, I think is – is way beyond the fold.
ASHLEY PARKER:
And I think if you look at it also, after January 6, it hits a little differently. In 2022, the midterms we just had, it wasn’t that Democrats won so affirmatively. I was just down at the DGA with these Democratic governors, and even them, where they really are the power center of sort of the next generation, even some of them said, “Look, I benefited from a pretty mediocre MAGA opponent.” But so, again, it wasn’t that Americans so much voted for them in some cases, but they voted for sanity. And meeting – a former president meeting with a racist, a white nationalist, an antisemite, calling to overturn the Constitution is not a particularly sane stance.
CHUCK TODD:
Yamiche, people say, “We’ve been here before with them.”
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:
Well, to me –
CHUCK TODD:
Is this time different?
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:
– the fact that we even have to ask that question shows you that there’s still this grip that former President Trump has on the party, and his popularity among some in the base, these extreme MAGA people who are still supporting him. The fact that they could still win primaries, that to me tells me that there’s something to the fact that he could still win the nomination. We’ve been here before. This feels familiar to me. We were here, and the Access Hollywood tape, when everyone found out. That they had a daughter and a mother, and were saying that they didn’t want former President Trump to be the nominee. We were here again after January 6 when we saw people leaving the White House in droves. And then everyone turned around and at least the senators who had the power to say, “We’re going to convict you in this impeachment,” they all decided, “Actually, this is the line that we’re not going to cross.” So I think, yes, does it feel different? It feels different because we’ve been fighting antisemitism and racism for a long time. But I still think that it’s too early to say whether or not he’s completely out of the ability to win this nomination.
JEN PSAKI:
I mean, I think Democrats and sane Republicans underestimate Trump at their own peril because in order for Trump not to win the nomination there has to be a better alternative. That’s how primaries work, right? Ron DeSantis, this man – he’s either the savior or he’s currently at his peak. Mike Pence, with all due respect, didn’t exactly light the world on fire politically before he was selected by Donald Trump to be his running mate. So the question is, who’s the alternative? Trump has some evil charisma that helped him win the nomination. The nomination process is long. What is going to happen here? And my view is people should not underestimate him.
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:
And he plays a weak – former President Trump plays a weak hand well. That is the thing that has allowed him to continue to be part of it.
JEN PSAKI:
And there’s, very briefly, a certain irony that former President Trump is actually underestimating his supporters, right? I mean, he seems to think that the only way he will have the support of his base is if he embraces racism, white nationalism, antisemitism. And, in fact, I think a lot of his base – that is the fringe and that’s not actually what’s so appealing about him.
CHUCK TODD:
Is she right about this?
MARC SHORT:
I think she’s right because I believe that really what a lot of Republicans appreciate was the record. They appreciated that we got record tax reform. They appreciate the record of national security. They appreciate what we did with judges. They appreciate so much of the record. And I think Ashley’s right, so often he doesn’t actually focus on what he accomplished.
CHUCK TODD:
Right. No, it’s funny. And in fact, do you find this – that there are people that like the president but say, “I don’t like his behavior”? I mean, that was a constant theme, right?
MARC SHORT:
Sure, absolutely. And I think it’s a matter of what are your choices? And I think that, in many cases, it was this, “We don’t like his behavior but we still like the record.” But I think we’ve reached a point where ever since – I agree with Ashley. Since January 6, I do think that was a dividing line for a lot of people.
CHUCK TODD:
Go ahead.
JEN PSAKI:
I was just going to say I actually think the dividing line is not January 6th. The dividing line was the November election when Republicans saw politically that it wasn’t advantageous to them to run as election deniers because they lost. It wasn’t like there was a loud Republican opposition to January 6th after January 6th. It is now not a good thing to run on. That may be the change.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, this brings me to Newt Gingrich, of all people. And let me pull out something he wrote earlier this week. “We,” referring to Republicans and conservatives, “We dislike Biden so much, we pettily focus on his speaking difficulties, sometimes strange behavior, clear lapses of memory, and other personal flaws. Our aversion to him and his policies make us underestimate him and the Democrats. … The Biden team had one of the best first term off-year elections in history.” Marc, do you agree with his assessment?
MARC SHORT:
I do agree. And despite Jen’s comment about, you know, Mike Pence having been successfully elected six times to the House and as governor, Joe Biden ran for president since the 1980s before he broke through. And the reality is that, yeah, I do think we underestimate him. We have consistently underestimated him. I think Newt’s exactly right.
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:
I think we should also – I mean, I would add to this, which is a little different than focusing on the policy – the policy wins for Democrats, which I heard a lot when I was traveling around the country, that Democrats were feeling good about the president’s ability to move legislation. We also underestimate Americans being able to push aside racism and antisemitism if they feel like they’re going to get what they want. This is not the first time we’ve had a conversation about racism and antisemitism. We’ve had the president – the former president himself use racist language and antisemitic language at times. And he’s been able to continue to move past that, and have the same Republicans who were outraged by a tweet condemn that tweet, but then say, “Well, I still like the man.” So I also think that that can be something that’s interesting in our society that we need to look at.
CHUCK TODD:
We kind of saw that with Benjamin Netanyahu. He wanted to criticize the behavior but not everything about Trump.
ASHLEY PARKER:
Yes, that’s exactly right. And even in this latest dinner, right, with Nick Fuentes and Ye, it feels like the easiest thing if you – not even if you’re a Republican, just if you’re a human – to come out against racism and antisemitism. Which some of the Republicans did, but some of them did it quite softly, right? They wouldn’t have had that dinner themselves. I mean, I think among one of the most forceful – actually, we were talking about this – was Mike Pence, who actually said, “Donald Trump needs to apologize.” Now, compare that to some of the people who wouldn’t even mention Donald Trump’s name.
CHUCK TODD:
Before I let you go from this round of the panel, Kevin McCarthy. If he doesn’t have the votes, can he be speaker?
MARC SHORT:
I think he’ll have the votes, Chuck. I really do, absolutely. Yeah, he’ll be the next speaker of the House.
CHUCK TODD:
You would still take his ticket over Steve Scalise?
MARC SHORT:
I think Kevin McCarthy is speaker of the House, for sure.
CHUCK TODD:
Before we go to break, in today’s Meet the Press Minute, we’re taking a look all the way back to 1956, just eight years after Israel’s founding.
[START TAPE]
GOLDA MEIR:
In our Jewish history, if the Jewish people went out of existence just because other people wanted them to go out of existence, there wouldn’t be a Jewish people today and there wouldn’t be an Israel today. But there is a certain stubbornness about our people, that we just want to live the same as other people do. So we’ve lived among nations that didn’t like us, and now we live in an area as an independent state where people don’t like us, we hope temporarily.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
That, of course, was Golda Meir, who would become Israel’s first female prime minister in 1969. When we come back, Congresswoman Katherine Clark, part of the next generation of leaders for Democrats in the House, will tell us how she will lead her party alongside a new Republican majority.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Two in five Democrats are members of the youngest two generations, millennials and Gen Z. But up until now, Democrats have been represented in the House by three members of the Silent Generation. That’s the generation that is older than the baby boomers. But now, the octogenarians are out as Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Democratic Leader Steny Hoyer step aside after decades of leadership, making way for Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, the first Black lawmaker to lead a political party’s caucus in Congress, Congresswoman Katherine Clark, and Congressman Pete Aguilar. Clyburn, by the way, Jim Clyburn is staying in the number four slot. So, now in the minority, they’re going to be fighting to protect two years of Biden’s legislative victories as Republicans promise to launch investigations all over the place, including on the president’s son, Hunter, the Afghanistan withdrawal, the handling of the Covid pandemic, and Biden’s immigration policies. And Katherine Clark of Massachusetts, who is the incoming Democratic Whip, first elected to Congress in 2013, represents the suburbs of Boston, joins me now. Katherine Clark, welcome to Meet the Press.
REP. KATHERINE CLARK:
Thank you, Chuck. Good to be with you.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me start with the new team, in general. It’s being hailed as the new generation of leaders, very much is diverse in appearance. But while there’s diversity of life experience here between the three of you, there’s not a lot of geographic diversity. This — you’ve — very much blue strongholds; Southern California, Boston suburbs, Brooklyn, New York. Do you think there’s enough geographic diversity inside the leadership team?
REP. KATHERINE CLARK:
You know, we represent a caucus that is historically diverse in all ways. And that includes geography. And what we have demonstrated over the last four years that we have been in leadership, working together as a team, is that we reach across our Democratic caucus to make sure that those perspectives are brought to the table. We put people together with solutions. And the strength of the Democratic Party in the House of Representatives is that we are diverse and we know that that gives us a great strength, and that coming together gives us our power.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you have a — What’s a way that the average House member — Democratic House member — is going to see a change between how Pelosi and Hoyer ran things, versus how you and Hakeem Jeffries are going to run things?
REP. KATHERINE CLARK:
You know, one of the biggest changes is going to be that we are coming into this in the minority, but the commitment that we have had to the people of this country, to workers, to women, to the climate, is going to continue on. And one of the things that the incredible leadership team that is transitioning out of leadership has shown us is how to lead by putting the American people first. But they’ve also given us a model to become our own leaders. And let me tell you what it means to me, coming in as a different generation. I remember my middle child waking up with nightmares over concern around climate change. I’ve had my family at a movie theater, when the movie stopped, my children immediately felt, “There must be a shooter in the theater with us.” These are the type of experiences that we are going to bring, as we continue to push to meet this moment of challenge for the American people with progress.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to ask about something that happened this week, the vote to avert the railroad strike. Some unions were not happy with Democrats on this one. I want to read for you one quote from the Maintenance of Way Employees Division of the Teamsters Union. Clark Ballew said this, “You can damn well believe our members will remember which politicians supported a basic common courtesy of a sick day when they go to the ballot box.” Are you comfortable with the fact that it’s the Democrats that basically passed a bill here that prevented the addition of more sick days to this agreement?
REP. KATHERINE CLARK:
You know, it is a national shame that we do not have paid sick leave in this country as a national policy for every single worker, including the railroad workers. And that’s why Democrats, along with President Biden, made sure that that was included in the American Rescue Plan, so people could have a chance to recover from Covid and other illness —
CHUCK TODD:
It didn’t get passed, though.
REP. KATHERINE CLARK:
— while not having to make the decision. And then we went on in Build Back Better. And we have met absolute resistance from the GOP. But our commitment is not to back down from this issue but to continue to press. It is good for workers. And it is good for the economy.
CHUCK TODD:
When it comes to what needs to get done before you end up in the minority, there’s a lot of different items on this lame duck agenda. I’m going to put up a graphic onscreen here from government funding, to the debt limit, to the defense bill, Ukraine aid, Covid aid, and the Electoral Count Act. What’s realistic here? The Electoral Count Act seems to be among the most of must-pass. But what else would you like to see get done before the next Congress?
REP. KATHERINE CLARK:
Well, just this week, we know we are going to be taking votes on the NDAA and making sure —
CHUCK TODD:
That’s the defense bill, right.
REP. KATHERINE CLARK:
— that we are funding our national security. That’s right. And then, we are going to have the, you know, the Marriage Equity Bill come before us that has passed the Senate. And we are going to celebrate being able to enshrine that you can marry who you love in this country. And then, we have to pass a budget. And Chairwoman Rosa DeLauro, the chair of our Appropriations Committee, is at that negotiation table 24/7, making sure that we are putting together a blueprint of our values in how we spend our money. We do not want to leave that to the hands of the GOP, who are already threatening to take down our economy and hold our budget hostage. And so we have work to do in the remaining weeks of this session. And we plan on getting it done.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to ask you about FTX, sort of, the fallen FTX CEO, Sam Bankman-Fried. He’s given nearly $40 million to Democratic causes over the last campaign cycle. I believe $6 million went to the House Majority PAC, another million to the Senate side of things. Do you think the Democratic Party got itself too tied up with the crypto industry, in general?
REP. KATHERINE CLARK:
You know, FTX is a cautionary tale for all of us who are looking at: “How do we regulate crypto?” How do we make sure that we are embracing what might be new technologies and currencies but also making sure that consumers have accountability and transparency. And let me remind you that it is the Democrats who make sure that we are pushing laws to get dark money out of our politics so that people can see who’s funding our campaigns. That is met with absolute resistance across the aisle. And that is an issue that we are going to continue to push.
CHUCK TODD:
Should the party figure out a way to return all this SBX money — SBF money and FTX money?
REP. KATHERINE CLARK:
You know, that’s going to be up to individual campaigns, but, you know, this is how our system works. And what is important is that we are making the improvements so that people know exactly who is funding. One of the most alarming things we saw in November was a rise of dark money, money coming in from individuals exceeding over a billion dollars, and money and campaigns that we don’t know who it came from. So let’s make it a transparent system. Let’s make it a system where the small donor has great responsibility and ability to participate.
CHUCK TODD:
Katherine Clark, the incoming Democratic Whip for the next Congress from — representing the suburbs of Boston. Thanks for coming on and sharing your perspective with us. Congratulations.
REP. KATHERINE CLARK:
Thank you, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Up next, why what happens on Tuesday in Georgia matters for the future of control of the Senate in 2024.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Data Download time. A record number of early voters have already cast their ballots for next week’s Georgia Senate runoff. And although they’re already guaranteed control of the next Senate, Democrats have more than doubled Republican ad spending for this runoff. And taking a look at the daunting Senate map they’ll face in 2024, well, it may give you an idea of why the Democrats are fighting so hard to keep this individual seat blue. Let me show you this map here. 2024 Senate map, 33 Senate seats, 23 of them Democrats, including 21 Democrats technically, but this is the Bernie Sanders seat, Angus King, both caucus with the Democrats. Democrats caught a break when Angus King said he would seek reelection here. These Republican seats, not a single one of them are in a state that Joe Biden carried, but there are three states here where Donald Trump carried them and carried them by a lot. Montana, Jon Tester, Ohio, Sherrod Brown, and West Virginia, Joe Manchin. And in fact, all three of these, Democrats were able to win when Barack Obama sought reelection in 2012. They all ran ahead. Both Tester and Manchin ran very much well ahead of Obama. They’re going to have to run even farther ahead of Biden, compared to his 2020 numbers, if they’re going to pull that off. But it’s not just those three seats. Look at the rest of this map in the battleground states. Nevada, Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, they are going to be Democratic Senate seats that they have to defend in all of those battleground races. And one thing we’ve learned; if a Republican presidential nominee flips this state to their side, they’re likely going to flip the Senate seat as well. Look on the Republican side. There’s just one seat up that was decided by less than five points in the presidential race and that is Florida. Maybe they try to do Texas. Ted Cruz is up. There’s already an open seat in Indiana. But to play offense for Democrats, not easy. This is why they’re spending so much money to hold this Georgia seat. Up next, Democrats have outspent Republicans by an astonishing margin in Georgia. Is it going to make the difference on Tuesday?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. All right, I’m obsessed with the Georgia ad spending. I’ve got to put up one more set of numbers here, Yamiche, and that is this. This is all the money that’s been spent essentially on behalf of Raphael Warnock, all right, since 2020. We’re nearing $400 million in one state. And I sit here, for a comparison, Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign spent just over $400 million in 2012. So $400 million for one candidate in essentially two years, assuming he wins this runoff on Tuesday, isn’t Raphael Warnock basically the first guy off the bench now for 2024?
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:
That’s a great question. I’m not quite sure I can answer if he’s going to be the person off the bench. What I can say is it underscores to you that they’re taking this race very seriously. And as someone who has been down in Georgia and interviewed people who think Herschel Walker is a liar but who will still vote for him, Warnock is putting his money in a place, saying, “Well, this is someone who was very, very popular.” No matter what he says, no matter what people might look at him and say he’s sort of an imbecile, he’s maybe not realistic, his voters who I’ve said, again, having interviewed them, at times have told me, “I don’t believe what Walker’s saying. I think that he doesn’t have a good character. I’m still going to vote for him because he’s a Republican.” He’s up against those kind of voters. So Warnock is putting money in this race because he knows he has to. And these polls, while they show that at some point Warnock has a sort of slight lead, they’re still pretty tight. And they’re tight in a race where most folks would say this isn’t–
CHUCK TODD:
Well–
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:
–really a race that should be tight.
CHUCK TODD:
–I was just going to say, Ashley, I look at everything that’s happened in 2022 and conclude this is maybe a battleground state but it really is a lean Republican state that Herschel Walker can’t win. I think that’s what we’re looking at.
ASHLEY PARKER:
Oh, absolutely. And on the presidential level it’s a state that has long gone Republican until Biden flipped it in 2020. But I think in terms of all the ad spending too, what it reflects is after the November election, when the balance of the Senate no longer hangs in the balance, this race becomes in fact more important for Democrats than it does for Republicans. Because it doesn’t help Republicans take control, but for Democrats, and this is not sexy, but it makes a lot of procedural things a lot easier and more importantly, you know, those Democratic votes that Schumer and the White House had to wrangle, Manchin is not the same as Sinema, right? And having just one more margin makes it a lot easier to do a lot of what–
CHUCK TODD:
Marc–
ASHLEY PARKER:
–he wants to do.
CHUCK TODD:
–I’ve sensed a sort of, I don’t want to call it apathy among Republicans but they’re sort of resigned that this runoff is probably not going to go their way because I don’t see the same urgency to this runoff that we even saw the last time.
MARC SHORT:
Well, look, I certainly hope Herschel wins. I do think, to Ashley’s point, I think the biggest issue is, well, that’s going to be on legislation now that Republicans have taken control of the House. But it is going to be a big deal on confirmations and nominations that Biden puts forward is having that extra cushion. And so I certainly hope that Herschel wins. But, Chuck, if you go to the November race, as far as raw votes aside from, you know, Kemp, the reality is that Herschel finished at the very bottom amongst commissioner of insurance, agriculture commissioner, superintendent for state schools. So the challenge he has is a really big one at this point to try to turn that around–
CHUCK TODD:
He can’t dangle control of the Senate as an incentive.
MARC SHORT:
Yeah, so if it was a proxy of Schumer versus McConnell that would certainly benefit Herschel. At this point he doesn’t have that.
CHUCK TODD:
Jen, let’s talk about the primary calendar that your former boss just endorsed. Let me put it up on screen for folks. And of course if he’s running for reelection these are sort of contests that won’t really matter that much, but it does matter who shows up at the convention. But he would put South Carolina first, then Nevada and New Hampshire would be on the same day, the Tuesday after, Georgia a week later, and then the early window closes with Michigan. The South Carolina thing caught everybody by surprise. I think Nevada thought it was going to be the first in the nation. What happened here–
JEN PSAKI:
So did the CBC think Nevada was going to be first in the nation. Look, I think Joe Biden, my former boss, loves South Carolina. He is sitting in the White House today because of South Carolina. That is probably why it’s first.
CHUCK TODD:
Go with the voters that brought you, huh–
JEN PSAKI:
That’s right–
CHUCK TODD:
The people that–
JEN PSAKI:
But I–
CHUCK TODD:
–you brought–
JEN PSAKI:
–do think from talking to a lot of Democrats who are involved in this process what they see this as is the February group of states that is bringing geographic diversity, demographic diversity, and that it’s more aligned with where the electorate is today. What is also true as you know, Chuck, because you watch this closely is that this is just the beginning of the process, and these state legislatures have to approve the moving of the dates. And so the Georgia secretary of state has already said he won’t do that. Is New Hampshire really not going to be first? I’m skeptical there. So there’s a long battle to go here.
CHUCK TODD:
Yamiche, the other way to read this calendar though, this was Joe Biden saying, “Hey, I want to make sure progressives have a harder time getting this nomination.” This is a primary calendar that is essentially for the establishment wing of the party.
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:
There is that. There’s also this is a calendar if for any reason someone gets brave and wants to challenge a sitting president it’s going to be good for Joe Biden to have South Carolina be first. As a reporter, the first question I had is South Carolina’s not a general election state that Democrats can win. And that’s a big question for me.
CHUCK TODD:
Isn’t that why they got rid of Iowa?
YAMICHE ALCINDOR:
That’s part of the reason and part of the reasoning that you heard. So I think it’s very interesting that they’re going to spend all this money in a state where they can’t win in the general election–
CHUCK TODD:
I think as Jen put it, we got a lot of chess pieces to figure out how to put on the table here before we know what this calendar will look like. Before we go we’ve got a quick programming note, especially if you love streaming. You can now stream your local NBC station live on Peacock now. That’s right, anything you want to stream, local news, weather, all of your favorite NBC shows including this one, Meet The Press, you can now go to peacock.com/local for more information. That’s all we have for today. Thanks for watching. We’ll be back next week because if it’s Sunday it’s Meet The Press.
